1 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:11,360 [music playing] 2 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:34,440 - [siren blaring] - [gunshot] 3 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:37,840 [explosion] 4 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:39,840 [gunfire] 5 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:43,160 [gun clicks] 6 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:46,240 [intense music playing] 7 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:51,400 [magazine loads] 8 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:52,960 - [explosion] - [gunfire] 9 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:56,320 [music playing] 10 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:01,880 - Report! - Zone one here! 11 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:03,240 Zone two here! 12 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:04,800 Zone three here! 13 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,680 Zone four here! Six here! 14 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:10,880 [upbeat song playing] 15 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:13,800 Well done, boys. 16 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:16,880 Don't be scared, Sharks. 17 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:18,400 Take your positions, boys. 18 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,760 This was merely a drill depicting how our soldiers 19 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,360 protect the country and the citizens in the operational area. 20 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:38,320 I consider myself fortunate 21 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,040 to have gotten a chance to serve my country. 22 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,640 I served in many of the country's operations 23 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:45,960 like Operation Parakram, Operation Rakshak 24 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,880 - and Operation Vijay, better known as the Kargil War. - Oh! 25 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:51,120 In 2002, 26 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:52,520 the Army gave me a chance 27 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:54,480 to train with the U.S. Special Forces. 28 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:55,960 I observed 29 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:57,560 that the U.S. soldiers 30 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,960 had many options when it came to tactical clothing and gear. 31 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:07,040 I thought if we had such solutions and tactical gear, 32 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,800 the work of our soldiers would become easier. 33 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,120 Inspired by that, I started SPEC OPS. 34 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:20,600 SPEC OPS aims at designing products keeping operations in mind 35 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:30,120 to have launched tactical cargos with Lycra. 36 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,360 As you are aware, Lycra is a type of material that stretches 37 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:37,040 increasing comfort and endurance for a soldier. 38 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:39,880 As an example, this soldier will now stretch. 39 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,680 We have given many pockets in these trousers as you can see. 40 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:47,400 These pockets serve a purpose. 41 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:49,880 A soldier carries gear with him. 42 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,240 He can organise that gear into multiple pockets 43 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,080 and make them accessible to our 16 lakh soldiers. 44 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,840 So, I am here to ask you 45 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,000 Thank you, boys. You may go. 46 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,320 Major Anil, welcome to Shark Tank Season 3. 47 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,280 - Thank you very much. - And my compliments. 48 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,480 The way you made an entry, 49 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:34,800 we all got goosebumps. 50 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:36,640 - Thank you so much. - Fantastic job on that. 51 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:38,720 Tell me something. 52 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,600 At a very basic level, when we think about the Army 53 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,120 or Army products, 54 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:45,920 they must have some criteria 55 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,520 because of which they can only get it from certain vendors, right? 56 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:51,560 I didn't really understand. 57 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,040 Do you wish to become one of those vendors? 58 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:57,680 I did not understand exactly what your business model is. 59 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:08,800 while some are not. 60 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:10,480 For example, in sports, 61 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,000 - every regiment and unit has its own logo. - True. 62 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,040 As well as design and colour co-ordination. 63 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,760 That requirement can't be fulfilled through supply. 64 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,160 We provide this through dealers. 65 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,640 Dealers participate in tenders and supply them to the others. 66 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:51,160 - Then you have Army Canteens. - Okay. 67 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,560 Military Canteen is a different organisation. 68 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:54,480 It is not the Army. 69 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:55,880 - Okay. - It's a different organisation. 70 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,280 An Army Canteen is typically located in a shopping complex. 71 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:00,920 If a soldier is visiting the canteen, 72 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:02,800 he can buy other products as well. 73 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:08,120 I see two types of products in your business model. 74 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,600 One, what they would need in combat. 75 00:05:11,840 --> 00:05:13,600 The first is a necessity. 76 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,200 - The second is good-to-have. - Correct. 77 00:05:16,280 --> 00:05:18,960 For instance, they need something additional for sports. 78 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,560 Everything I am selling right now is good-to-have. 79 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:23,480 Necessity is being met by the government. 80 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:25,680 - Good. - I am doing more than what the government is giving. 81 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:36,640 Or individual soldiers buy any additional items they need. 82 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:43,520 During my tenure, 83 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:48,880 I probably had two camouflage uniforms given by the Army. 84 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,440 I had over 20 owned uniforms. 85 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,320 Do non-soldiers also buy these products? 86 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,000 Yes. That market exists and it's a big market. 87 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:57,760 I am not operating in it. 88 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,000 Don't you think non-soldiers must be buying these clothes 89 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,080 - for personal use through your dealers? - Very marginal. 90 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,320 It's because our dealers are present in operational areas alone. 91 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,160 What's the size of the soldiers' market? 92 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:09,680 I'll tell you what I've studied. 93 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:11,720 - There's no market study available on this. - Okay. 94 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:13,640 What I have done is a bit of an analysis 95 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:15,280 of how big the market could be. 96 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,720 I've identified ten products that we make, 97 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,360 the good-to-have ones. 98 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:22,680 In that, I considered tracksuits 99 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:49,480 - Why so many SKUs? - Correct. 100 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,480 This is to display our capability of what products we can make. 101 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:53,440 You don't make them! 102 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,440 - We do, but in limited quantity. - Okay. 103 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,520 I think we make somewhere around 300 different articles. 104 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:06,400 - There are suppliers. - Okay. 105 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:08,520 There is a shift in the market 106 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,560 which I've realised because of my experiment in the market. 107 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:16,320 - Earlier, people preferred low prices. - Hmm. 108 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:18,240 Now, they prefer quality. 109 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:19,440 - Okay. - Number one. 110 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,240 - Number two. There is no brand. - Hmm. 111 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,680 - You might have heard of Under Armour. - Yes. 112 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:27,760 And 5.11 Tactical. 113 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,000 - They do the same thing that we do. - Hmm. 114 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,360 Bridging that aspiration, they've gone into the common market. 115 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:36,440 So, they started here. 116 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:38,080 This is the aspiration bridge. 117 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:47,480 - That is inspired by the Army. - Correct. 118 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,480 - I read War Monger. Is that your brand? - Yes. 119 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:04,120 So, that's the brand you're trying to build. 120 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:05,120 - And SPEC OPS. - SPEC OPS. 121 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,720 - My main brand is SPEC OPS. - Okay. 122 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,240 Quality, quality and quality. 123 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:17,200 Can we see them? 124 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:19,200 Absolutely, I'll show you. Just one second. 125 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,960 Are you allowed to use the regiment's logo? 126 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:27,800 If they are placing an order, I don't use it for myself. 127 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,800 I only give it to them once they give me the logo. 128 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:32,480 - This is the wallet that we make. - Yes. 129 00:08:32,560 --> 00:08:33,880 These are belts that we make. 130 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:35,760 - Um, T-shirts. - T-shirt. 131 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:36,920 This is a tactical shirt. 132 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:38,680 Something similar to what I'm wearing. 133 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:45,920 Why do you have two brand names? 134 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,200 I launched a brand for the price-sensitive market. 135 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,560 - People want to buy T-shirts costing Rs. 300. - Hmm. 136 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,400 Keeping that price range in mind, 137 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,400 we launched T-shirts that we sell for Rs. 320 to 350. 138 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:01,440 Is that the dealer price? 139 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:03,920 - Very thin... No. Customer! - It's the consumer price! 140 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:05,240 - Consumer price. - Rs. 300! 141 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,040 Even today... That T-shirt for instance... 142 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:09,760 - The other one, not this one. - Okay. 143 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,800 or do you wish to create a consumer brand like Under Armour? 144 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:32,960 This is my vision. 145 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:33,840 Like Under Armour, 146 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:35,400 I should be able to cater 147 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,760 - and provide products to everyone today. - Okay. 148 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:39,920 One of my purposes, I'll be honest with you, 149 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,560 is to use the publicity that I'll get here 150 00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:44,440 to now go B2C. 151 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,240 We will generate an online presence. 152 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,360 - Major, what you said today... - Yes? 153 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:55,200 Most of the companies that come here for the publicity don't admit to it. 154 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:56,840 You said it openly. 155 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,080 Army men have a quality of being honest. 156 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,840 - Straight shooter in both ways. - Thank you. 157 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:04,800 I don't understand one thing. 158 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,000 - You said the difference is in the quality. - Yes. 159 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,640 - You said you make for dealers. It's wholesale mostly. - Yes. 160 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,840 You must get specs in your order with regard to GSM and material. 161 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:15,280 Then how's the quality different? 162 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,160 The specs only come for the tender business. 163 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:22,960 We get specs for tenders. 164 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,640 We can follow the specs or increase them. 165 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:27,760 What percentage is the tender business? 166 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:28,800 It's mainly retail. 167 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:30,720 - Through the dealers, it is retail. - Got it. 168 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:32,360 Tell us about your sales. 169 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,960 Top three SKUs that make up 80% of sales. 170 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,360 Have you raised investment yet, Major? 171 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:40,320 Not yet. 172 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,680 I'm expecting a sales turnover of about Rs. 8.5 crores. 173 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:57,680 - Profit... Rs. 70 lakhs... - 50 times. 174 00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:59,720 50 times profit multiple! 175 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,560 If you look at the profit multiple, it is more than normal. 176 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,120 A CA might have told you to follow 5 times the sales. 177 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:09,000 Yes, this is the discussion I had with a friend 178 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:12,680 - because my knowledge of finance is limited. - No. 179 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,960 You built a Rs. 6.5-crore business. Your knowledge is obviously good. 180 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:17,960 Major Anil, I am out. 181 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:20,440 Your business is not investible. 182 00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:23,000 - Let me honestly tell you why. - Hmm. 183 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,520 It is difficult for an investor to become a partner 184 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:28,280 because the business won't scale 185 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,360 Good quality and affordable products are available today 186 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,560 - on Amazon and Flipkart, in plenty. - Okay. 187 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,800 Scale would be a challenge there. 188 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:44,560 But huge respect 189 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:46,480 for who you are and what you've done. 190 00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:47,440 Thank you. 191 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:42,160 Major, I'll make an offer. 192 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,080 If you take this to consumers... 193 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,840 There's a brand called Timberland famous in the U.S., correct? 194 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,120 If we make a similar brand in India 195 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,920 - where we could use you to make a brand... - Sure. 196 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,600 With similar prints and colours. 197 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:04,520 With your focus on quality, you could get into many areas. 198 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:09,120 If you make a brand in this, you could do big on licensing. 199 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:10,880 For instance, I make speakers too. 200 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:12,760 If you build this brand, 201 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,960 - I could launch a boAt X Special Ops Speaker. - Yes. 202 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,280 Using your brand name as leverage. 203 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:24,160 There is no brand yet in this area. So, I could do that. 204 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,120 I will give you a logical valuation 205 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,280 because I feel Rs. 40 crores is a lot. 206 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:34,400 I will give you Rs. 20 lakhs for 10% equity. 207 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,080 Rs. 60 lakhs debt 208 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:47,520 This is my offer. 209 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,080 The valuation is Rs. 10 crores. 210 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,400 It is Rs. 50 lakhs for 5% equity 211 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,080 - Okay. - [Sharks laugh] 212 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,720 - Straight shooter! - [laughter] 213 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,320 You recognise that the premium is because of the platform. 214 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,160 I think India needs to hear that. 215 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:13,800 Thank you so much for your offer. 216 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:14,880 To you too. 217 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,960 And I don't mean to sound rude. 218 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:22,280 I know you can't know about the other person's business sense 219 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:24,440 and nitty-gritty in such a short time frame. 220 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:26,960 It's hard to know what it might be, right? 221 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:28,000 For example, 222 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,800 currently, Rs. 8.5 lakhs sales is through my regular channels. 223 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:33,680 I'm right now in an advanced stage 224 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:35,720 where I am getting an order for Rs. 8 lakhs. 225 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,080 - Rs. 8 crores. Sorry, not 8 lakhs. Rs. 8 crores plus. - 8.5 crores! 226 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,760 I'll get that order which I will execute in 3 months. 227 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,600 Okay, got it. I will change the valuation, Major. 228 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:53,040 Rs. 15 crores valuation. 229 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:54,600 From 2 crores to 15 crores. 230 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:56,640 - He spoke about the order. - Okay. 231 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:58,200 I guess you didn't hear him. 232 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:02,120 2% equity as you offered. 233 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:03,520 Rs. 30 lakhs cash. 234 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:04,800 The rest in debt 235 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,440 I won't be able to help you much as you've got a good hold on it. 236 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,000 The second area that is still developing, 237 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:23,720 which is on the retail side, 238 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:25,120 I am familiar with that area. 239 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:29,200 You need virality at some places in your brand. 240 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:30,720 That virality is possible. 241 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,200 Such a brand has not yet come in India 242 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:34,520 as far as I know 243 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:35,760 and that can become viral 244 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,720 on camouflage military-based products. 245 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:41,440 It is something which is very new. 246 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,320 That is the risk I am taking. 247 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:45,400 For Rs. 15 crores, don't take any risk! 248 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:46,640 Let me tell you that. 249 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,040 - Seriously. - [Sharks laugh] 250 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:50,240 Salute! 251 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:52,440 Are you the Shark or are we? 252 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,160 The real Shark is there. 253 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,000 Sir, you are the Shark. 254 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,120 - Wow. - I'm just trying to get a decent valuation 255 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:00,440 which I feel is decent. 256 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,840 Rs. 40 crores is a lot to me. 257 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:04,640 [sombre music playing] 258 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,160 Until the valuation was Rs. 2 crores, 259 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:08,920 I was quite interested. 260 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:10,760 You took it to Rs. 15 crores. 261 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,000 I am trying to value your D2C business. 262 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:15,960 So, it looks very difficult from my perspective 263 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:17,680 although I'm very excited about the market. 264 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,720 I can't arrive at a valuation benchmark 265 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:22,080 that you will like. 266 00:17:22,360 --> 00:17:24,120 I am out for that reason. 267 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:25,360 Sure. 268 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,440 It's difficult to value B2B businesses 269 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,680 because of fluctuating contracts, low margins 270 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:33,520 - and longer working capital cycle. - Yes. 271 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,600 I don't think the valuation in my head 272 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,080 will match your expectations, 273 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,200 given the current state of business. 274 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,200 I don't have confidence in how big the B2C will be. 275 00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:49,240 For now, I would respectfully exit. 276 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:50,720 - Thank you so much. - Best of luck 277 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,880 and very proud and inspired by you, sir. 278 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:55,160 Thank you so much. 279 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:57,960 I guess I'm taking it personally. 280 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,440 I'm taking your valuation to be for me personally, 281 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:03,160 what you are valuing me at. 282 00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:05,480 - How could it be yours? - No... 283 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,440 I believe that the business is nothing but me. 284 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:09,880 No, sir. It is our job to maximise our return. 285 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:11,480 - I totally agree with you. - It is not a value 286 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:12,880 ascribed to a person. 287 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:14,880 I gave you a valuation of Rs. 15 crores, sir. 288 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:16,800 Okay. Rs. 15 crores is also very low, sir. 289 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:18,440 Then make a counter-offer. 290 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:19,640 Sir, I already gave it. 291 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:21,200 - What is it? - [Anupam smirking] 292 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:22,240 What did you say? 293 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,680 I came with the offer of Rs. 80 lakhs 294 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:26,640 - in exchange for... - 2% equity. 295 00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:35,080 - Amit, can I discuss with you? - Of course. 296 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:36,720 [suspenseful music playing] 297 00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:39,240 All right. Looks like you'll get a joint offer. 298 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:43,640 Go for it, guys. 299 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,600 You didn't like Aman's valuation of Rs. 15 crores so both of us will 300 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,680 And the rest Rs. 40 lakhs is on debt for 12% 301 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:51,520 Thank you so much for your offer. 302 00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:53,640 Do you agree with the offer? 303 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,280 Thank you! You are doing a great job. 304 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,680 - Thank you so much, sir. - Let's grow this company. 305 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:06,240 I look forward to that. Thank you so much. 306 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:19,240 Thank you. 307 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,600 [upbeat music playing] 308 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:58,840 Hello, Sharks. 309 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,160 1500 years ago, chess started in India. 310 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,120 Currently, chess is played in more than 190 countries. 311 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:16,520 Wow! 312 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,080 Today, India is shining in chess. 313 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,800 But not everyone has access to a good coach. 314 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:44,800 We started Kaabil Kids to immerse children in the world of chess. 315 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:57,920 Sharks, Kaabil Kids is a global online chess training academy 316 00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:41,240 I have a quick question. 317 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,200 How do you gain the title of grandmaster? 318 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,320 You have to secure 3 grandmaster norms 319 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,240 I started when I was 10 years old. 320 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:09,800 When did you get the title of grandmaster? 321 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:11,960 I became a grandmaster in 2004. 322 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:13,920 - At the age of 22. - 22. 323 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,280 - It took you 12 years to become a grandmaster. - Right! 324 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,640 There is a speciality about Shark Tank. 325 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,560 - Tradition! - It's our tradition. 326 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,440 Before the person who asked a question 327 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,280 gets an answer, 328 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,240 all five of them ask their questions. 329 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,080 - It's just four of us. - Yes, four. 330 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:30,840 [laughing] 331 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,600 I asked you a question earlier. 332 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,400 Before you could answer, Anupam asked you a question. 333 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,280 So, Mr. Sunil, 334 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,680 please let's complete my question. 335 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:43,920 When did you start this journey? 336 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:45,160 Tell us in detail. 337 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:46,960 But first... Sorry! 338 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:48,240 [laughing] 339 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:49,760 I was just teasing her. 340 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:51,800 I am sorry! 341 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,040 I am a chess player. 342 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,000 I won many tournaments 343 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,440 at district and state levels 344 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:01,800 when I was young. 345 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,280 I always dreamt of being a grandmaster. 346 00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:07,960 But I never had the access or opportunity to achieve it. 347 00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:09,680 Because I belong to a very small town 348 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,720 of Udhampur, which is in Jammu and Kashmir. 349 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,800 Ultimately, after completing my education 350 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,520 I started working in a corporate office. 351 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,320 When my son was around 4 years old, 352 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,040 I tried to fulfil my dream through him. 353 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:24,760 I taught him how to play chess. 354 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,440 - He ranked fifth in Delhi State Under 7. - Wow! 355 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,800 He was only 4.5 years old back then. 356 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:31,760 4.5? 357 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:32,680 - 4.5? - Yes. 358 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:33,560 My God! 359 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,040 - That is great. - I was waiting for him to grow up. 360 00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:38,960 I used to keep the chessboard in the open when he was around. 361 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:40,960 And his interest piqued. 362 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,880 Gradually, his friends found out. 363 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:45,400 His friends came home. 364 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,120 I started teaching around 6 children. 365 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,720 Gradually, in 2015, when the number of students increased, 366 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,760 I started looking for a place. 367 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,800 There is a basement 368 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,560 in my society. 369 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,160 - It's a small basement. - Which city is this? 370 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:01,400 - Greater Noida. - Okay. 371 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,120 and life skills have improved. 372 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,040 Their thought process is evolving. 373 00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:18,680 How did you meet Ms. Kitty and Mr. Tejas? 374 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,200 So, Kitty and I were colleagues in SAGE Publications. 375 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:23,360 Kitty, are you a chess player? 376 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,160 No! But I know chess. 377 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,440 - Okay! - How did both of you connect? 378 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,400 There is a website dedicated to chess called lichess.org. 379 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,400 I contacted him there. 380 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,640 I shared my idea with him. I discussed my plan. 381 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,640 And my vision is to open the world's largest chess academy. 382 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,200 He liked my vision. 383 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,200 How many people in India play chess? 384 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,480 5 crores people play chess in India. 385 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,440 You will find information about courses, 386 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:34,920 young achievers, 387 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,320 and training team, 388 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,200 along with their credentials. 389 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,120 This is our curriculum. 390 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,200 Currently, we have five levels. 391 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,080 The rest of the curriculum is structured 392 00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,720 to cater to school, district, state, and national levels. 393 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:02,360 How much does per package cost? 394 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,760 We offer group and individual classes. 395 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,320 For group classes, we charge Rs. 375 per class. 396 00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:44,280 Monthly tournaments play a major role in our curriculum 397 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,520 and how many attempts it took to solve it. 398 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,520 How many students are on your platform? 399 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,440 Around 1280. 400 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,960 If the student is with us for 7 months, 401 00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:29,120 he starts performing in the Top 10 in his school. 402 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,720 - Hmm! - As of now, in 3.5 years, 403 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,080 we have 21 students 404 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,000 What is your USP? 405 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,520 Is it curriculum? 406 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,920 Why haven't numerous EdTech companies developed this? 407 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,080 Grandmaster-designed curriculum adds a lot of weight. 408 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,240 Other than that, how is your delivery? 409 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,120 We train the parents 410 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,720 on the child's psychology and the parent's psychology. 411 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:29,680 What do you do for sales? 412 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,360 For sales, we are currently doing performance marketing. 413 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:33,880 If I search on Google... 414 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,240 Can we do a live Google search? 415 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:37,520 - Yes! - Do it. 416 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:39,400 And search 417 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,000 'chess training for kids.' 418 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:43,800 What is first? 419 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:45,800 - ChessKid. - And second? 420 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:46,880 Kaabil kids. 421 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:47,800 Why isn't it first? 422 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:49,600 Is ChessKid an Indian company? 423 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,120 ChessKid is part of Chess.com. 424 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,280 They do around Rs. 1000 crores in revenue. 425 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,280 - Is it a global or an Indian company? - Global. 426 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:57,880 How many other companies are in India? 427 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,280 There are around 400 small chess academies in India 428 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,000 that have around 50 to 500 students. 429 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:06,920 So, you are India's biggest chess academy. 430 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,880 Globally, we are the leaders in our category. 431 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:12,360 Which is ages 5 to 15. 432 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,360 Which is 5 to 15 and live training. 433 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,120 Don't ChessKid provide live training? 434 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:17,760 ChessKid is a platform 435 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,400 where they have gamified the content and curriculum. 436 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,520 - And they sell their product per licence. - Subscription-based. 437 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,360 - Subscription-based. - Because software is highly scalable. 438 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,280 Your issue is that you have to pay the trainer. 439 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,160 That is when you get your gross margin. 440 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,240 How much does a trainer make in one month? 441 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,040 I don't think it is fair. 442 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,960 The monthly cash component is considerably high. 443 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,560 As per our engagement, once a month or once every two months, 444 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,360 he helps us with masterclass 445 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,440 and major changes or updates in the curriculum. 446 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,520 That is how it is. 447 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,800 - This means you are better at chess than Mr. Tejas. - No! 448 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:22,080 [laughing] 449 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:23,840 Who has the remaining 30%? 450 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,680 you are allocating to marketing and trainers? 451 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:06,920 Give us a detailed breakdown. 452 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:35,080 How much is the CAC? 453 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,440 Our CAC is around Rs. 6,000. 454 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:53,400 In the past 3-4 years, 455 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,400 we've witnessed all aspects of the EdTech business. 456 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:56,760 The game is 457 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,240 to spend as much as you can on CAC 458 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,080 and the lifetime value will be enough to make up for that. 459 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:04,920 That story never came to fruition. 460 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,520 - It started to drop. - In fact, it started to drop. 461 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,640 CAC increased and LTV dropped. 462 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,440 Right? Because once you get past the earlier adopters, 463 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,000 you are left with lower-paying users. 464 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,480 The calculation gets inverted. 465 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,600 You are saying that you spent Rs. 6,000 and made Rs. 16,000 LTV. 466 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,880 40% of your cost is going into acquisition marketing. 467 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,160 Therefore, I want to ask you a question. 468 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,720 Why can't heavy lifting be done by artificial intelligence? 469 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,240 That will be boring for the children. 470 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,200 Why will it be boring? It could be gamified. 471 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:47,840 There are apps and games. 472 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:49,520 - They can do that. - ChessKid.com is doing that. 473 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,200 We don't want to do that, because we believe 474 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:54,720 that 90% of students 475 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,120 are between the ages of 5 to 8 years old. 476 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,280 - They need hand-holding. - Yeah. 477 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:01,920 After a certain level, 478 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,200 and playing chess for around 7 years. 479 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,200 We use such tech for high level learning. 480 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:10,720 - Not at a basic level. - But... 481 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,640 In this era, hands down, artificial intelligence 482 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,840 is defeating grandmasters and world champions. 483 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,000 Don't you think, in the future, 484 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:19,560 it will be able to train that effectively? 485 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,000 Artificial intelligence calculates millions of moves in a second. 486 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,160 It had no emotions. So, it can win. 487 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:26,960 - But it can't teach a child. - It can't train. 488 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,280 The product... I like what you are doing. 489 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,320 It will help India to move forward. 490 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,200 If it were a technology platform 491 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,800 without human intervention, I would've been interested in this. 492 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,160 Because scalability is fast with tech products. 493 00:34:41,240 --> 00:34:42,760 This seems like a push product. 494 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,400 It doesn't feel like there is an organic demand. 495 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:46,880 I am out because of these reasons. 496 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,640 I wish you all the best. 497 00:34:48,720 --> 00:34:50,360 Around 5 crore people play chess. 498 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,000 Approximately 1 crore falls within the age range of 5 to 15. 499 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,720 In India, Rs. 500 plus affordability doesn't even reach 1 lakh. 500 00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,800 So, our target market size is around 1 lakh. 501 00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:01,440 Secondly, the bigger problem is, 502 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,160 that your gross margin is 15%. 503 00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:05,080 Because you give 30% to the trainer. 504 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:06,640 40% is CAC. 505 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,440 And 15% GST. 506 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,480 So, you are left with around a 15% gross margin. 507 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,560 In this business, it gets difficult to invest in tech and branding. 508 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,000 These two challenges pose a barrier to scalability. 509 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,560 That's why, it's not an investable business, but a fantastic business 510 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:23,240 for the future of India. Good luck. 511 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:24,200 - Thank you! - Thank you! 512 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,360 You are in a good direction because of the niche 513 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:28,840 and you are focussing on it. 514 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:30,480 But I have an issue. 515 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:31,760 Besides the small market, 516 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,720 AI will be a bigger threat. 517 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:36,600 If you want to create value in this, 518 00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:38,680 then you must capture the entire market. 519 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,000 In order to capture that, 520 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:42,360 you don't have money. 521 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,160 Acquiring users will require 522 00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:47,920 a significant amount of CapEx investment. 523 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,120 So that the LTV is maintained in the future. 524 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,120 The ratio is not sitting well in my mind. 525 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:54,960 That's why I am out today. Good luck! 526 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:56,200 - Thank you! - Thank you! 527 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,520 How can you turn Rs. 3.5 crores into Rs. 100 crores? 528 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,600 For that, we need 40,000 students 529 00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:30,480 to do Rs. 100 crores in revenue 530 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,720 with EBITDA of Rs. 25 crores. 531 00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:36,400 And 40,000 students will come from India. 532 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,440 Other than that, the entire globe is with us. 533 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,360 Chess is very popular in the US. 534 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,960 Out of 250 students, 100 are from the US. 535 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,040 Number one, our LTV becomes strong there. 536 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,600 And number two, we don't have to pay GST to them. 537 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,240 I want to ask something. 538 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,280 Have you been approached with acquisition offers 539 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,040 or investment offers from EdTech companies? 540 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:01,640 In fact, there have been plenty of offers. 541 00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:04,840 First year, we received an acquisition offer. 542 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:06,680 It was from Play Magnus. 543 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:08,560 It is Norway based. 544 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,440 The only company listed in the stock exchange. Norway based. 545 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,000 They were recently acquired by Chess.com 546 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,040 for ยค83 million. We declined their offer. 547 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,520 You are not burning any more. You've started earning. 548 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:20,040 We are sustaining now. 549 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:21,760 We will give you Rs. 50 lakhs 550 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,320 as equity at 5%. 551 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:27,320 - He means both of us. - Both of us. 552 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,640 We will give you Rs. 20 lakhs debt 553 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:46,240 Why did you come to the Sharks? 554 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,760 We came here because we wanted to open new avenues for us. 555 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:51,360 We also want to learn a lot. 556 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,640 We will teach you. But it comes with a price. 557 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,080 It's not a bad valuation, to be honest. 558 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,000 Someone made a mistake by valuing it at Rs. 20 crores. 559 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,400 I won't make the same mistake. 560 00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:07,880 What will you do, sir? Check or checkmate? 561 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,000 We want to give you a counteroffer. 562 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:12,240 Very good. 563 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,280 Rs. 50 lakhs for 2.5% equity. 564 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,440 We are sure that 565 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,600 we will bring this company to the top. 566 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:31,720 So, we would like to 567 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,960 keep the same valuation at least. 568 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,360 [suspenseful music playing] 569 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:42,080 - Okay, done. - Smart move. 570 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,240 - You guys are worth this. - Thank you so much. 571 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,680 - Thank you! - Let's create more grandmasters. 572 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:55,960 Absolutely! 573 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:57,880 [camera clicks] 574 00:38:58,280 --> 00:38:59,520 Superb! Well done! 575 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:01,320 - Superb! - Thank you. 576 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,480 [theme music playing] 577 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:09,960 Then it's all right. 578 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:11,400 [Aman laughing] 579 00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:15,480 Please keep your notepads and notebooks aside. 580 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,200 Nowadays, there are innumerable digital tools 581 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,040 to make our lives easy. 582 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:22,280 So pen and paper aren't required. 583 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,600 As it is, people say, "nobody writes nowadays." 584 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:27,560 Sharks, we are here to break that myth. 585 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:29,760 Even today, 65% of people 586 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,120 Your thoughts become organised, 587 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,600 your mind is decluttered 588 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:46,480 and your creativity increases. 589 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:01,880 During the last few years, 590 00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:03,880 mental health awareness has increased 591 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,960 but people don't know how to start improving it. 592 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:09,960 So we started Odd Giraffe. 593 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,000 you may use our productivity planner. 594 00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:37,400 Similarly, Namita, if you want 595 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:39,720 to reduce stress and anxiety, 596 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,840 you may use our guided journals. 597 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,480 Vineeta, you may use our notebooks and to-do lists 598 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:47,680 to write down your daily tasks and to-do lists. 599 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:49,920 All our planners and journals 600 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,080 and build a category-defining global stationery brand. 601 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:14,960 Sharks, who is ready to join the revolution? 602 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,640 - By the way, I saw your products as they were gifted to me. - Wow! 603 00:43:25,720 --> 00:43:28,000 And they are very good-looking! 604 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:29,600 Thank you so much. 605 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:32,360 This is for you. This one. 606 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:39,040 Nice, buddy! 607 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:40,280 - Thank you so much. - Very nice. 608 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,280 Odd Giraffe. Yes! It's a very cute name. 609 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,600 And the best part is everything you make is good-looking. 610 00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:47,840 Thank you so much. It's nice to know you already know our brand. 611 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,280 - You have seen our products. - Yes, and good-looking stationery 612 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:52,800 - and aesthetics is the most important. - Exactly. 613 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:54,640 They are personalised. Our names are written here. 614 00:43:54,720 --> 00:43:55,760 - Right. - Very nice. 615 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:56,800 - It's really nice. - Thank you. 616 00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:58,520 It's of high quality with an aesthetic appeal. 617 00:43:58,600 --> 00:43:59,720 - Thank you so much. - Thank you so much, Amit. 618 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,120 - I have used planners but none of them had this quality. - Correct! 619 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:07,160 - Amazing. - You can personalise it and order a copy bearing your name. 620 00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:09,640 It's lovely, right? 621 00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:11,120 And I love the quotes. 622 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,400 - Brene Brown is one of my favourite influencers. - Right. 623 00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:16,160 The way they have designed it. 624 00:44:16,240 --> 00:44:17,840 'I'm grateful for...' 625 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:19,320 'What would make today great?' 626 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,120 - Correct. - I think taking out moments to do this 627 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,200 is a kind of mindfulness. It's great. 628 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,880 - At least the Gen Z believes in it. - Definitely! 629 00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,720 Karan and Sanil, please tell us your background. 630 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:30,880 How did you get this business idea? 631 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:32,760 I have done graduation in advertising. 632 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,920 Then I started working in advertising agencies. 633 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,680 I worked with plenty of brands for 2-3 years. 634 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:39,560 Which brands? 635 00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:41,880 Nat Geo, Pepsi IPL, NIVEA 636 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,480 and many Indian and global brands. 637 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,680 Then I realised I wanted to start my business 638 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:50,280 - so I started my agency at the age of 23. - Really? 639 00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,920 We created digital content and websites 640 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:57,680 with Discovery Channel, Paytm Insider, and Bacardi. 641 00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:58,960 What was the name of your agency? 642 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,480 I joined Karan's company as an intern. 643 00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:10,800 After my graduation, 644 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,240 I joined him full-time and then both of us worked for the company. 645 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:15,920 From which college did you graduate? 646 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:23,880 - Thank you so much. - Cleanliness. 647 00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,080 - Thank you. - Paper quality and other small things are very elite. 648 00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:28,520 - Thank you so much. - What do you do? 649 00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,480 Actually, ours is a small company. It just comprises the two of us. 650 00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:32,600 - That's it? - Yes. 651 00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:40,200 - Karan handles marketing. - Marketing, branding, 652 00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:44,120 influencing, packaging, designs, and the website are handled by me. 653 00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:46,640 It's like splitting the left brain and the right brain. 654 00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:55,880 - Oh, wow! - In 2019. 655 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:11,160 I never saw it before. 656 00:46:11,240 --> 00:46:14,040 Yes, because we took funding to start our company. 657 00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:17,960 We work with freelancers and interns. 658 00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:19,640 What about your scale? 659 00:46:19,720 --> 00:46:21,520 Our last year's revenue 660 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,040 for FY 22-23 was Rs. 4.1 crores. 661 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:37,680 What is your projection for this year? 662 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,160 I agree 100%. I thought the same. 663 00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,200 There's something called "sale per employee". Right? 664 00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:48,120 - Right. - Right. 665 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:49,760 - There's a metric, Revenue per Employee. - Right. 666 00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,000 - Rs. 8 crores with two employees... - Yes. 667 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:53,640 It means Rs. 4 crore per employee. 668 00:46:53,720 --> 00:46:56,160 - Awesome! - I think it's a record in Shark Tank. 669 00:46:56,240 --> 00:46:57,520 - Seriously. - For sure! 670 00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:58,800 Hire employees and then fire them 671 00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:00,160 so that only two employees remain. 672 00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:07,040 Just two people made a revenue of Rs. 8 crores. I can't get over it. 673 00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:08,240 - Thank you. - Thank you. 674 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:16,840 Going by your explanation, 675 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:18,560 you're doing Rs. 27.8 lakhs, 676 00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,640 that puts you at a run rate of Rs. 3.25 crores. 677 00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:21,520 - I understand. - Yes. 678 00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:24,400 If your revenue is going to be Rs. 8-Rs. 9 crores, 679 00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:25,640 it would be because of gifting after the festive season. 680 00:47:25,720 --> 00:47:26,720 Festive season. 681 00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:28,560 Gifting must be at the beginning of the year. 682 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:29,960 - They are selling journals. - Beginning of the year. 683 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:31,200 You mentioned gifting. 684 00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:33,120 It's surely a part of our business. 685 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,360 It must be important. 686 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,240 We started this business model only last year. 687 00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:40,640 Earlier, we had an inventory-based model. 688 00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:42,240 We changed it last year. 689 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:43,960 What change did you make? Did you transform it into made-to-order? 690 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:14,120 Q3 and Q4 are such periods for us. 691 00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:15,880 If so many people use these... 692 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,280 - Right. - There must be a company larger than yours. 693 00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:19,560 Does a company exist right now? 694 00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:21,720 Many companies exist globally 695 00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:23,200 but there's no Indian company. 696 00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:24,440 We are the leaders here. 697 00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:26,720 - Who is the global one? - What's the name of the French company? 698 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:28,120 - Moleskine. - Italian. 699 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:29,760 How large is that company? 700 00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:31,760 It's a 200 million dollar company. 701 00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:34,400 Didn't it catch up in India yet? 702 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:36,680 It didn't catch up in India yet but it's catching up now. 703 00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:38,840 This trend is increasing. 704 00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:40,680 Our sales are increasing every year. 705 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:42,800 You talked about a global company 706 00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:45,800 so their price point and your price point 707 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:47,280 must be significantly different. 708 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:49,080 - They are quite different. - Of course! 709 00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:50,720 The margin structure must be strong abroad. 710 00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:52,080 Their margin structure is strong. 711 00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:54,360 How much EBITDA can we maintain? 712 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,320 It will be between 10% to 15%. 713 00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:08,560 In our category creation business, 714 00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,840 we need to do a lot of marketing initially. 715 00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:13,080 How much does it cost? 716 00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:14,440 Rs. 1,599. Around Rs. 1,600. 717 00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:16,360 Isn't Rs. 1,600 costly? 718 00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:19,520 - Our target customers purchase it... - Gen Z... 719 00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:23,000 - If I break down the market size... - Right. 720 00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,280 - A household must have a minimum income to buy this. - Right. 721 00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,000 - If their child wants to buy it. - Right. 722 00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,640 Seven crore people do tax filing. 723 00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:34,280 - Only 2.5 crore people pay tax. - Right. 724 00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:36,760 If a child buys it at this price point, 725 00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,360 - the family's income should at least be Rs. 20 lakhs. - Right. 726 00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,800 Only 1-1.25 crore Indian households have that income. 727 00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:44,400 Our market size is too small. 728 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:48,120 The cost of our notebooks starts from Rs. 699. 729 00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:00,880 Which product is a bestseller? 730 00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:02,600 We mostly sell planners. 731 00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,200 It's like the Google Calendar. 732 00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:14,680 You have simply copied it. 733 00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:16,240 Which doesn't work. 734 00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:17,800 I'll tell you why. 735 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,320 We can write limited calls and only two lines are given for email. 736 00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,160 We have different kinds of planners. 737 00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:24,800 You are holding a daily planner. 738 00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,160 - Yes. - We have given you an entire day's scheduling. 739 00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,040 Similarly, we have a productivity planner 740 00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,560 where you get more space to write. 741 00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,040 I'll tell you one more challenge. 742 00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,320 Any person can easily buy your notebooks 743 00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:29,840 - and replicate them. - Replicate them. Right. 744 00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:33,360 - Right. - The barrier to entry must be high. 745 00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:35,480 - Right. - So that you could scale. 746 00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,200 - Right. - If the barrier to entry is low, 747 00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:39,840 you can't scale. 748 00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:41,080 - Right. - Correct. 749 00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,320 - You said that people are going back to writing. - Right. 750 00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:44,800 I don't agree, bro. 751 00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,080 Vineeta said in the beginning 752 00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:51,120 that Gen Z believes in keeping a journal. 753 00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:53,320 - Journaling. - Analog products. I meant that. 754 00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:54,640 I mean journaling. 755 00:51:54,720 --> 00:51:57,280 - As a trend amongst women. - But digitally. 756 00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:58,640 - Not really. - Digitally. 757 00:51:58,720 --> 00:51:59,520 Handwritten. 758 00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:01,960 So I want to say 759 00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:03,840 - that the new generation... - How do you know it? 760 00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:05,240 - I'm trying to tell you. - Did you research? 761 00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:10,000 I'm trying to explain that the new generation believes in this. 762 00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:12,600 They have realised that taking care of the mind 763 00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:14,960 is as important as taking care of one's body. 764 00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:17,240 So they spend more 765 00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,280 on experiences and analog products. 766 00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,600 This generation is born in a digital world. 767 00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:24,920 What are you saying? 768 00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:27,600 My wife loves reading books. 769 00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:30,680 - She likes a few shops in the Khan Market. - Yes. 770 00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:32,080 All of them have shut down. 771 00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:36,240 You claim that Gen Z is going back to writing 772 00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:37,600 and they maintain a journal. 773 00:52:37,720 --> 00:52:39,960 I'm not able to digest that fact. 774 00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:41,240 Understood. 775 00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:43,440 I'm out, unfortunately. 776 00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:44,520 Though I love writing. 777 00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:52,480 because the youngsters... 778 00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:54,480 For instance, my children 779 00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:57,680 write but they write digitally. 780 00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:00,080 Most importantly, 781 00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,840 barrier-to-entry is low and it's easy-to-copy. 782 00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,120 Beyond a point, you can't scale. 783 00:53:05,240 --> 00:53:06,800 So all the best for that. 784 00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:08,480 Thank you so much. 785 00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:11,840 I like you two and the quality of your product. 786 00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:13,520 - The look and feel are good. - Right. 787 00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:14,680 Your product is good 788 00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:16,960 but I think it's a niche market. 789 00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,400 You know it after my discussion. I'm out. 790 00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,240 Your business of journaling 791 00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:31,920 is limited to Gen Z, women, 792 00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:34,240 social media savvy, and the metro population. 793 00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:36,280 - Yes. - It's a niche market. 794 00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:43,480 You have a small audience. 795 00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:46,440 It's not a scaleable business at the moment so I'm out. 796 00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:48,240 Okay. Thank you. 797 00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:50,640 The first lesson in business is 798 00:53:50,720 --> 00:53:54,400 - you can't change the market overnight. - Right. 799 00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:02,040 - Right. - It should increase the market size and you just follow it. 800 00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:03,840 However, the trend is against you. 801 00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:06,680 I don't think you should raise capital. 802 00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:08,680 If you are passionate about your business, 803 00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,640 grow it at a small level 804 00:54:11,720 --> 00:54:14,120 and cut down your unnecessary costs. Right? 805 00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:16,480 Don't hide your manpower cost by outsourcing. 806 00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,120 - Even though you outsourced it, it's your manpower cost. - Right. 807 00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:21,280 All right? Run it profitably. 808 00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:23,720 Don't be under the fallacy 809 00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:25,800 that you can build a big business by raising funds. 810 00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,400 I can't see the future of your business so I'm out. Good luck. 811 00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:29,400 Okay, thank you. 812 00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:38,200 It's not an investible business. 813 00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,440 It could be a passionate hobby project. So I'm out. 814 00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:42,960 I wish you all the best. 815 00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:44,560 - Thank you so much. - Thank you! 816 00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:46,000 And I'll gift this to people. 817 00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,080 - Thank you so much. - Thank you! 818 00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:11,960 Friends, welcome to Ask The Shark. 819 00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:15,720 Today, the CMO and cofounder of boAt, Mr Aman Gupta 820 00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,360 - has joined us in Ask The Shark. Welcome. - Hello, Rahul. What's up? 821 00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:21,560 Sir, Niren Bhavsar from Ahmedabad has a question for you. 822 00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:23,400 'I'm Niren Bhavsar from Ahmedabad.' 823 00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:24,920 'I'm 38 right now.' 824 00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:27,640 'I want to be an entrepreneur like you all' 825 00:56:27,720 --> 00:56:30,640 - 'but don't have enough courage to start something new.' - Yes. 826 00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:33,120 - 'Also, I have a family with two kids.' - Yes. 827 00:56:50,240 --> 00:56:53,720 you can't leave a secure job. You'll have to work 828 00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:55,360 or save some money. 829 00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:57,400 Start a business with your savings. 830 00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:00,880 If you get an idea, approach an angel investor 831 00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:03,920 and tell them your situation so that he can pay you a salary. 832 00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:05,880 If everything is fine financially 833 00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:07,280 and you can start a business, 834 00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,080 don't be under the impression that running a business is easy. 835 00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:11,600 It appears easy but it isn't. 836 00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:13,960 I have been saying this for the last three years. 837 00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:15,160 I have three children. 838 00:57:15,240 --> 00:57:16,920 Two children are with my wife and one is with Sameer. 839 00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:18,680 boAt is like my child